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Tzr125 4Dl New Bee.


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#1 Louis

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Geschrieben 17 April 2016 - 06:23

Hello TZR owners

 

I'm Louis a TZR enthusiast from the Netherlands living a 15min from Germany so can speak and understand German a bid.
But I'm not that good to write my whole story in German so hope you guys don't mind me writing in English as I'm a little bit better in that.

 

Me twostroke live in a short story
Started with a RD350 then later came a RD500 when I was begin 20's got my first TZR250 2MA started collecting them, later I had the 2XT and some old cup racers etc etc.
When I was end 20's got my first 3MA and that was like a dream, slowly sold all other bikes and focused myself only on the 3MA's
Now end 30's got a few of those and experimenting with them for fun.

 

My site: www.tzr3ma.com

 

Recently bought a TZR125 4DL had one in the past and always regret selling it.
It seems to be in a good condition, but have not ride on it jet.
It mainly has cosmetic problems that I'm trying to solve (will as for some parts in the wanted section)
The idea ist to hold it original, and go from there.
Like to experiment with original parts to see if it gives you some more power
(like testing the different exhausts, and CDI units, etc etc)

Have my own (small) dyno to do some testing.

 

 

Hope to find here some friendly TZR enthusiasts like my self, would be nice to get some support on technical questions/ideas
And perhaps meeting some off you.

 

Here ist my TZR125

http://www.tzr3ma.com/tzr125-4dl.html

motor-op-zij.jpg

 

 

Cheers


Bearbeitet von Louis, 17 April 2016 - 06:38 .


#2 KölleChris

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Geschrieben 18 April 2016 - 04:54

Hi Louis

 

you´re welcome. I can imagine that you´ll find here some guys that will help you, me for example 

 

Nice DL you have bought . Mileage = 4500 km – not bad ! Looks like a new-one

 

I know your Website, i have discovered it a long time ago. Big respect to this !

I live near the dutch-border too, near venlo/maastricht. Maybe sometimes we will met us.

 

Regards

 

Chris


Bearbeitet von KölleChris, 18 April 2016 - 05:02 .


#3 Louis

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Geschrieben 18 April 2016 - 08:25

Hello Chris

 

Thanks fore the commend on the site, appreciate it.


Will update it soon with some info regarding the CDI project and Testing the 3MA with the use off open carbs (hope that will bring a bid more)
Lots off projects going on, hope to get the track bike three running this year.

 

          But the 4DL ist high on the to do list, currently trying to repair the cracks in the fairing.

          Need to get myself a 4DL nose cone (upper fairing) the one I got now has missing parts

          Perhaps some one here has a good one?

 

         Cheers
         


Bearbeitet von Louis, 18 April 2016 - 08:38 .


#4 friedrich_klindert

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Geschrieben 23 April 2016 - 11:31

Jesus Christ - were did you find that cuty? I have been looking for that color schema for some time - and the bike ist in wonderful condition. If I got right what you are trying to find you might like this link:

 

http://www.motorrad-bach.de/

 

They offer fairing parts but I neverso one in real life so do not ask me about their quality. ;-)

 

Cheers

Friedrich

 

P.S.: No, I did not mix german and english - autocorrection *seems* to be a wonderful thing.


Bearbeitet von friedrich_klindert, 23 April 2016 - 10:59 .


#5 Charly-93

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Geschrieben 24 April 2016 - 01:09

 
Hello,

cool site that you have arrived! I'm curious about your results with the exhaust with the 125cc .

How you calculate the exhaust to ?


#6 Louis

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Geschrieben 24 April 2016 - 06:12

Hello Friedrich,

 

 

Jesus Christ - were did you find that cuty? I have been looking for that color schema for some time - and the bike ist in wonderful condition

Thanks, Yes the condition ist one off the reasons I bought it.

The basic seems to bee al right, it runs immediately no strange noises, aluminum parts are good, no oxidation no broken bolds, etc, etc all good.

Will see.

 

Its still a German bike, so when finished will need to get a Dutch license on it.

 

If I got right what you are trying to find you might like this link:

 

 

Yes, found that link. 165 euro for a new nose cone sounds really nice.
But don't know if you can compare it with a oem fitment.

Because most fairing parts needs to be repaired, like to hold the oem panels as I know they fit perfect.
Ones repaired, they will go to the painter and all will be like new (If it goes to plan)

 

But if I can't find a oem nose cone in time this seems to be a very good choice

 

Will let you guys know

 

Ps. I see what other bikes you have, before I bought the NSU Superlux have been looking to a Adler MB200

 

Cheers


Bearbeitet von Louis, 24 April 2016 - 06:35 .


#7 Louis

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Geschrieben 24 April 2016 - 06:33

Hello Charly,

 

 

I'm curious about your results with the exhaust with the 125cc .

Yes. Like to know that to, it's a part off the hobby figuring all that stuff out.

 

But first want to see how fare you can get with oem parts, before I'll be making pipes.

Small note: I'm not a professional pipe builder just a amateur, use a small program to give me a basic.
Then do some dyno runs and see if its OK, or I need to make changing's
Will show you ones I'm there.

 

There are already interesting thinks I like to dyno and see the difference's

1) It looks like the Last 4DL model hase a shorter exhaust compared with the first 4DL so it should rice the RPM a bid higher and hopefully that will bring us something.
2) If I look to the ignition curves, looks like a dtr125 4BL seems to give a bid more. (Or perhaps a cdi from the last 4DL type) this could be positive for more HP

mrwheelyzp3xe0.jpg

 

I don't know what I can aspect from a complete stock bike at the rear wheel, I'm guessing around 21-22 HP?
Also don't know where it peeks? +/-10.000rpm?

 

Are there some stock dyno runs here, so can see what they do?


Bearbeitet von Louis, 24 April 2016 - 06:41 .


#8 friedrich_klindert

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Geschrieben 24 April 2016 - 08:49

Hi Louis,

 

the parts from Motor Bach have been discussed as genuine in the forum if that helps. The licensing should not be a problem if I understand the EU thing right - once you have had a registration anywhere in the EU the bike should get one in your country as well. Let me know if this works like that I am quite curious abut it. The Superlux was *the* german bike in the 50 - congratulations. Adler was the first company to to some standartization so the are relatively easy to keep running because many spares can be exchanged between models - and I the first Adler was my grandpa's bike which makes it invaluable anyway.

 

Cheers

Friedrich



#9 Louis

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Geschrieben 24 April 2016 - 09:36

 

the parts from Motor Bach have been discussed as genuine in the forum if that helps

Ok that ist interesting, so they should fit like oem panels.

 

I see on there site this text:Seitenteile für alle TZR-Modelle    
Displayed ist a panel from the last 4DL type.
Do they have the first 4DL fairing panels to?

 

Will sent them a e-mail, and ask for some info

 

 

The Superlux was *the* german bike in the 50 - congratulations

Well must say, I have been reading some history about NSU. But back in the 50's they were one off the largest motorcycle factory's in the world.
When driving it today, most people look when you drive by sometimes they wave ore smile.

It gives you a big smile to when driving


Bearbeitet von Louis, 24 April 2016 - 09:52 .


#10 KölleChris

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Geschrieben 27 April 2016 - 05:43

I don't know what  ................stock dyno runs here, so can see what they do?

 

 

Hoi Louis,

 

The last 3 years I have collected some Sheets for the DL-125cc-Model.

 

If I have a look at the Dyno-Sheets, you will see that the most DL have round about  24-26 HP at the backwheel.

If you optimize/tune(Ignition,Exhaust….) …i think 30 HP ist possible but more HP will be very expensive and too much deterioration

You are interested in these testbench-sheets? Pls send me your MailAd, because its not allowed to post pics from other folks.

 

At my homeplace there ist no Dynorun where I can see, how much HP my DL RR have ! I think i must visit you...... :-)

 

The DL´s normally have the Peak/Peek at 10.500 rpm (stock version).

 

 

 

Chris


Bearbeitet von KölleChris, 27 April 2016 - 06:28 .


#11 Louis

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Geschrieben 27 April 2016 - 07:42

Hello Chris, 

 

 

If I have a look at the Dyno-Sheets, you will see that the most DL have round about  24-26 HP at the backwheel.

If you optimize/tune(Ignition,Exhaust….) …i think 30 HP ist possible but more HP will be very expensive and too much deterioration

Ok that sounds logical, when you look at the cylinder design its about the same as a 2MA witch had around 45-50HP (from memory)
So a 4DL with a larger carb should be producing about half its power. (roughly saying)

+/- 25HP ist a good starting point.

 

 

You are interested in these testbench-sheets? Pls send me your MailAd, because its not allowed to post pics from other folks.

Yes I'm very interested, I will give you a PM.

 

 

 

The DL´s normally have the Peak/Peek at 10.500 rpm (stock version).

10.500rpm that ist 500rpm more then I thought.
If the ignition curve ist correct (shown post above) you have 10 degrees at peek power. That ist not much (very save)
If the head volume ist close to 11cc +/-14 degrees at peek power should give a bid more.

 

Are there different curves between the 4DL1 CDI and 4DL2 CDI?
Does somebody knows the differences between the 4DL1 exhaust and 4DL2 exhaust?

 

I have used the search function, but there ist not much detail described about this (dimensions, timing, headvolumes, etc etc)

 

Did the guy in the movie not use a 4FL or 4FU cylinder?

 

Louis


Bearbeitet von Louis, 27 April 2016 - 08:01 .


#12 KölleChris

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Geschrieben 28 April 2016 - 03:45

Hi,

 

4FL and 4FU are the same. 4FL ist. called the bike and the cylinder from her ist named 4FU. It´s the Nicasil-Coated cylinder /DL´s = 3mboo - Iron

 

What ? 4DL1 or 4LD2 CDI ? Never heard about it. I only know, that only one type of this CDI for the DL R+RR excists, all these are no restricted and have the same ignition-curve. Maybe do you mean the SP-CDI ? For a couple of years there are an official "TZR-CUP-125-Raceseries". Have read, that these TZR-Cup-Version has a different cdi in there but more about this topic i dont know. Have a look a the bench sheets that i send you, one of the sheets ist a "TZR-Cup"-Sheet- from Assen.

 

Right, the englishmen have changed from 3mboo to 4fu ! 

 

Timing, dimensions and so on .....- have a look at this.  

http://forum.tzr-sce...?showtopic=4344

He has compared the 3mboo with 4FU-Cylinder.

 

 

Greetz

 

Chris


Bearbeitet von KölleChris, 28 April 2016 - 04:29 .


#13 Louis

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Geschrieben 28 April 2016 - 06:31

Hello Chris, 

 

 

4FL and 4FU are the same. 4FL ist. called the bike and the cylinder from her ist named 4FU. It´s the Nicasil-Coated cylinder /DL´s = 3mboo - Iron

I just mentioned the 4FL or FU as a different cylinder compared with the 3MB00 cylinder on a 4DL
As original on the 4DL should be a 3MA00 P cylinder (P for performed) as the 3MA00 should be for the DT125R
Correct me if I'm wrong

 

Swapping/using different cylinders on the 4DL ist cheating in my book (lol) :-)

 

 

What ? 4DL1 or 4LD2 CDI ? Never heard about it. I only know, that only one type of this CDI for the DL R+RR excists

As a new bee I may use terms/types wrong.
I thought that it would be logical to name the TZR125R the first serie and the TZR125RR the second serie
But if you guys name them R and RR so will I

 

 

all these are no restricted and have the same ignition-curve

 

Ok, ist this measured? Or just not noticeable when you change them?
I mean has someone used a scope and a pulsegenerator to read the ignition curve and YPVS opening sequence?

 

If the TZR125RR uses a shorter exhausts, normally the ignition curve or YPVS curve would be changed for it (Therefore a different CDI)

 

 

 

 

For a couple of years there are an official "TZR-CUP-125-Raceseries".

Yes I have seen them in assen my younger days.
But they used they the 4FL for that CUP

 

Don't know exactly, but did Italy not use the 4DL ist a junior cup?

 

 

I'm pretty enthusiasts about the 4DL

Need to sort the fairing panels, and let them sprayed.
So I can make my first run with it and feel if the engine ist OK

 

I'm already looking for a
RR CDI and RR exhaust to dyno the diferances

 

Cheers

Louis


Bearbeitet von Louis, 28 April 2016 - 07:42 .


#14 KölleChris

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Geschrieben 29 April 2016 - 09:08

Hi Louis,

 

 

4DL1 - 4DL2 - As a new bee I may use terms/types wrong.

 

It´s not wrong but another kind of spelling. You are right (it was my fault ), in German it´s called R and RR and in other country´s DL1-DL 2. Seen on Wikipedia : First time I have hear/read that, nice to know …..

https://en.wikipedia...i/Yamaha_TZR125

 

 

..all these are no restricted and have the same ignition-curve

 Ok, ist this measured? Or just not noticeable when you change them?

 

I don’t have a "pulsegenerator"  - ( sounds like StarTrek/StarWars :-) ) - but I haven’t notice any difference by changing the CDI from a R/DL1 to my RR/DL2-Modell. It runs similar.

 

 

If the TZR125RR uses a shorter exhausts, normally the ignition curve or YPVS curve would be changed for it (Therefore a different CDI).

 

Interesting question but I don’t really know that, it´s out of my technical knowledgement. Compared to your mechanical skills . …I´am the newbee

 

 

Don't know exactly, but did Italy not use the 4DL ist a junior cup?

 

 

As I know…there are 2 Cup´s at the early 90th. A German ADAC  and an Italian TZR SP Cup....both DL´s

 

http://forum.tzr-sce...=178&tab=images

http://forum.tzr-sce...adac#entry22636

(Post from MarkusBelgarda at the end of the threat)

 

It excist a special Cup-Cylinder for the SP/DL3 Model. A member of this Forum has sold it.

 

 

Yes I have seen them in assen my younger days. But they used they the 4FL for that CUP

 

I have seen now, there are a TZR FL Cup too….interesting !

https://www.youtube....h?v=B3m-el6iRj0

 

 

 

 

looking for a
RR CDI and RR exhaust to dyno the diferances

 

If you need a R+RR exhaust or a CDI for testing, pls contact me at pm.

 

Greets

 

Chris


Bearbeitet von KölleChris, 30 April 2016 - 12:48 .


#15 Louis

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Geschrieben 01 Mai 2016 - 10:13

Hi Chris,

 

 

I don’t have a "pulsegenerator"  - ( sounds like StarTrek/StarWars :-) ) -

Its part off the hobby.
Because the CDI looks to be glued it will be difficult to measure on the IC inside the CDI.
I can replicate a pickup pulse and measure (if this CDI will allow) the delay time in the outgoing ignition signal.
If you do that in steps of 500rpm you should be able to calculate the exact curve. (Witch ist nice to know for experimentation)
Also the YPVS curve can be read out like this.

 

Its good to know where the differences are in those CDI's

 

 

but I haven’t notice any difference by changing the CDI from a R/DL1 to my RR/DL2-Modell. It runs similar.

 

Noticeable will be difficult on the road.
The ignition cure wont increase the top speed

 

Example: In your case:
Putting a R CDI on a RR wont do much as the pipe on the RR ist for a higher RPM range
Putting a RR CDI on a R could do a tiny bid
Putting a RR CDI and Pipe on a R Should bring a bid more.

 

(Small note off me, this ist only theoretical, as I don't have measured the differences between those pipes and CDI's)

 

 

Interesting question but I don’t really know that, it´s out of my technical knowledgement. Compared to your mechanical skills . …I´am the newbee

I'm not a expert either, just a hobby guy

 

I see on different Dyno runs some peek at +/-10.000rpm some peek at +/-11000rpm
But i can't see what's the R or RR (I'm guessing the RR ist Peeking a bid higher)

My idea (Small note, just a idea)
That the curve form a RR CDI may Look like this (IN RED)

new%20curve_zpsrvfsxcih.jpg

 

If you need a R+RR exhaust or a CDI for testing, pls contact me at pm.

Im always a bid nervous when I borrow stuff, what happened if I drop extendedly the exhaust and it has a dent in it. Or by testing the CDI unit some thing happens to it.

 

I really appreciate the offer, but will look for a set for my own (RR CDI and RR Pipe) so I can only blame my self if something happened to it.

 

Cheers


Bearbeitet von Louis, 01 Mai 2016 - 10:47 .